The Soapbox

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What's this?

Oh I'm well aware how it works. And as an Italian taxpayer I would hope

your friend would appreciate those that paid for the care his son got, rather than boast about what a good "deal" he got for jumping the border to use their "free" healthcare. But I can assure you, those taxpayers are indeed sitting around "bitching about what it's costing the taxpayer". That was evident in the last election, and I have been hearing about it for decades.

BTW, if you stay there on a Visa (or visitors over 90 days for Schengen Agreement countries), one of the many requirements is that you indeed not be a "freeloader" and buy into the Italian healthcare system or buy your own insurance, and I assure you neither of those are cheap.

But none of that is really to the point of the OP, nor my point, which is about actual cost control and how to evaluate actual cost. Sticking someone else with part of the bill, as Shen is boasting about, does not make anything "affordable".

(In response to this post by Seattle .Hoo)

Posted: 07/19/2018 at 12:56PM

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Nice little article about healthcare expenditures and administrative costs -- Oregon Hoo 07/19/2018 11:28AM

When I was working in Germany, I went with my wife to see a doctor for a -- NJHoo 07/19/2018 12:23PM

We had a similar experience in France a few weeks ago. My wife had a -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 12:33PM

But they have to pay higher taxes... /s ** -- Manbearpig 07/19/2018 12:45PM

I can find $1.5 trillion to help pay for it. -- WahooMatt05 07/19/2018 12:59PM

So we're back to rich people paying for everyone's healthcare? -- BocaHoo91 07/19/2018 1:26PM

How would it be the rich paying for it? The 1.5T tax cut was a middle class -- BonsackHoo 07/19/2018 9:19PM

Fine, would it be better if I said we're back to the rich paying for it -- BocaHoo91 07/19/2018 9:37PM

Back to? This was always the D's endgame. ** -- hoothat 07/19/2018 1:31PM

Should Dems go the R route and just not try to find ways to pay for things? -- WahooMatt05 07/19/2018 1:51PM

No. We should find ways to pay for things. But that can't involve 5% -- BocaHoo91 07/19/2018 2:56PM

There are only three issues to consider that I see -- NJHoo 07/19/2018 5:01PM

Regarding your last paragraph, I think you'd have to be willing to give up -- BocaHoo91 07/19/2018 6:05PM

It would have to be broad, graduated and mandatory. ** -- NJHoo 07/19/2018 7:35PM

I agree with broad and mandatory. Graduated -- BocaHoo91 07/19/2018 8:11PM

I agree with your point -- NJHoo 07/19/2018 9:32PM

I'm totally fine with that. I'd be fine paying a little extra to provide -- BocaHoo91 07/19/2018 9:42PM

Exactly. Too many in their 20s or 30s figure they are healthy and forego -- NJHoo 07/19/2018 9:46PM

There is one overlooked element. Businesses are paying a fortune to -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 8:16PM

Yeah, I agree. I think you could have employers bear a good portion -- BocaHoo91 07/19/2018 8:25PM

You also had no problems with cortez's platform. -- hoothat 07/19/2018 2:08PM

Now that's how you write a logical trainwreck. LOL, where to begin... -- WahooRQ 07/19/2018 2:29PM

SMH, raising taxes to fund -- hoothat 07/19/2018 4:00PM

I have no clue how he drives on public roads that suck away his freedom. -- THECZAR 07/19/2018 2:37PM

You're comparing infrastructure -- hoothat 07/19/2018 4:02PM

Stop signs and stop lights are communist red for a reason. ** -- WahooMatt05 07/19/2018 2:55PM

I heard that next gen stop lights are being stained Khmer Rouge. ** -- WahooRQ 07/19/2018 2:56PM

What about the ones with red light cameras? Scary shit right there, buddy. ** -- WahooRQ 07/19/2018 2:49PM

Alright. You took it one step too far. No police state! ** -- THECZAR 07/19/2018 3:19PM

On the plus side, though, at least this is an actual policy discussion -- WahooMatt05 07/19/2018 2:25PM

Nice conflation. Par for the course, I suppose.** -- SchmHoo 07/19/2018 2:24PM

Like most things, they just want to go back to the way it was. MAGA. ** -- THECZAR 07/19/2018 2:02PM

Government debt = Free Lunch! ** -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:57PM

GOP medical proposals involve gutting ACA and the safety net and having -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 1:53PM

If we have seen anything over two years -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 2:01PM

I'm still waiting on that infrastructure bill. They have no policies. -- THECZAR 07/19/2018 2:07PM

LOL I almost forgot all about that. Trump's big infrastructure plans which -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 2:11PM

But the cost of their system is 80 % -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 12:55PM

I know, we pay more and get less -- Manbearpig 07/19/2018 12:58PM

One poster is so proud of the reaming. ** -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:04PM

Do they? When my dad was living in California he and a colleague from -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 12:51PM

I totally believe that. -- Oregon Hoo 07/19/2018 1:32PM

Yep - Read the linked study. The article talks about gaps in Hospital and -- 111Balz 07/19/2018 12:19PM

I will always remember the bill I got -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 12:15PM

You should thank the Canadian taxpayers for subsidizing your healthcare, -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 12:19PM

Damn right, I'm proud. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 12:25PM

In December of last year, I had surgery about 2 hours overall -- NJHoo 07/19/2018 12:34PM

It's ludicrous. My son had his appendix removed while visiting us last -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 12:43PM

I had a $30K bill for a 4-hour hospital stay. Health insurance isn't the -- Tafkam Hokie 07/19/2018 6:48PM

Thank you. Exactly right, and the most important point so rarely made. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 8:19PM

I'm at the point where I think there are two valid solutions to this mess -- Tafkam Hokie 07/19/2018 10:52PM

Sounds like the Canadians are very aggresive -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:06PM

I used do deal with Canadians fairly often...so this is anecdotal, but -- Tuckahokie 07/19/2018 1:32PM

I think there is a lot of evidence to support that anecdote. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:35PM

Heck we do that here too -- Oregon Hoo 07/19/2018 1:35PM

I saw a specialist about surgery that I needed to restore some QOL -- NJHoo 07/19/2018 7:55PM

Exactly. Some people like to gloss over this point. Plus, insurance -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 1:50PM

I'm not sure I'd use Canadian and aggressive in the same sentence. ;) But -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 1:09PM

If Medicaid for All is so great and cost saving, why did CA take a pass? -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:42PM

I'm not a proponent of Medicare for all or Canada's healthcare system. I -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 1:46PM

Agree, although Medicare already exists so it would be a lot easier to -- WahooRQ 07/19/2018 2:33PM

OK, but that doesn't address why CA said they had to pass on this "great" -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:56PM

Assuming you are talking about Healthy California, the nickname of SB526, I -- southdenverhoo 07/19/2018 3:32PM

Thanks! Good article and maybe that's what KC was referring to in terms -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 4:42PM

I don’t see how a state could do it. You are talking about national -- KCHoo 07/19/2018 3:14PM

Why not? They looked at it, and passed because of the cost, not because -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 3:39PM

Don’t you think the cost issues are related to the things I listed. ** -- KCHoo 07/19/2018 3:40PM

No, I think the cost issue is related to how expensive it is to provide -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 3:51PM

It's pretty easy. Canada has government insurance. UK has government -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 2:04PM

When my wife got breast cancer -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:16PM

SMDH. You actually think that's why your bill was that low? That this is -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 12:31PM

Funny you'd bring up Italy. A colleague of mine was over there vacationing -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 12:38PM

Oh I'm well aware how it works. And as an Italian taxpayer I would hope -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 12:56PM

No one got stuck. Grow up. ** -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:07PM

I'll tell you what I think. I think Americans are an unhappy and resentful -- Seattle .Hoo 07/19/2018 1:07PM

That's because we have too many unhappy liberals. :-) Sorry if I won't just -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:21PM

Medicare for all. Not Medicaid. -- southdenverhoo 07/19/2018 1:36PM

You can try to brand it as that, but Medicaid for All is what we'll get. -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:51PM

But you did let me. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:23PM

Seems I touched a nerve for having allegedly let you get away with it. ** -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:25PM

You touch a nerve?? Lol! ** -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:26PM

"Grow up" you seem awful defensive. You should be. ** -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:29PM

Just happy advice you need. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:31PM

As long as I didn't touch a nerve. ** -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:44PM

It’s not for lack of effort, I’m sure. ** -- SchmHoo 07/19/2018 1:49PM

Lol. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:59PM

SMDH too. Fuck 1/3 too much. ** -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 12:35PM

Just suggesting you thank the Canadians for their "fair share", rather than -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 12:41PM

Paid mine. It is what they chose to charge. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 12:48PM

Are they "proud" about scamming the Canadian taxpayer? Congrats, you made -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 12:59PM

Good lord you've become the biggest moron on this board. Take a break. ** -- WahooRQ 07/19/2018 1:44PM

No scam. Freely charged. You've lost it. ** -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:03PM

And you claim to be a CPA. SMDH. ** -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:04PM

I am. Freely charged. You're melting. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:05PM

Do you think your co-pay is what they freely charge too? Just thank the -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:11PM

No need. But I will thank them for not screwing me with excessive overhead. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:17PM

Of course not. You got a "deal" on someone else's dime. Be proud. ** -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 1:23PM

I am proud. I told you that. I don't -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:25PM

Remind the next Canadian that drives on a US highway that WE PAID FOR THAT! ** -- WahooRQ 07/19/2018 1:55PM

Can't we just pay for part of their tolls? Shoot, just remove all tolls and -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 2:03PM

Yes, but the downside is that your son is not a Real American -- Beerman 07/19/2018 12:19PM

Naturalized real:) ** -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 12:25PM

Good. If Obama could get away with being born in Kenya and still become -- hoolstoptheheels 07/19/2018 1:34PM

Like Cruz, could be President someday. Well, Cruz can’t, but not because of -- southdenverhoo 07/19/2018 1:19PM

My son is more likeable than Cruz. -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 1:21PM

That's not saying much. Satan may be more likable than Cruz. ** -- hooyorkcity 07/19/2018 1:33PM

Satan? Man, I'd say even Hillary is more likeable than Cruz. ** -- WahooRQ 07/19/2018 5:31PM

But her emails... ** -- hooyorkcity 07/19/2018 5:35PM

Not this time! Even I agree Hillary is more likable than Cruz! -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 5:49PM

Yes. Even I find him more likable than Cruz. I did say Satan already no? :) ** -- hooyorkcity 07/19/2018 5:50PM

Even Satan did an honorable job Koaching the US Olympic Team. ** -- WahooRQ 07/19/2018 6:10PM

Point taken! And I'm sure we'll both agree his Dookie doppleganger may be -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 6:03PM

K + Ted Cruz love child = Grayson Allen. AKA, the unholy trinity. ** -- hooyorkcity 07/19/2018 6:06PM

By enticing Jr. and his countrymen to burn down the White House again? :-) ** -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 12:25PM

One can easily see that in the growth in the number of people employed in -- Hokie5150 07/19/2018 11:51AM

I first noticed in the mid-90's that my primary care physician's office -- Tafkam Hokie 07/20/2018 8:16PM

That late 80's to mid 90's spike aligns with the growth in the # -- 111Balz 07/19/2018 12:30PM

Are you complaining about job growth? Heresy! ** -- Beerman 07/19/2018 12:28PM

The status quo that MUST be conserved -- Shenhoo 07/19/2018 12:26PM

Education's chart wouldn't be much better. Maybe even worse. ** -- Hoodafan 07/19/2018 12:04PM

I've seen suggestions that a simple fix like "one standard insurance form" -- Late 80s Hokie 07/19/2018 11:39AM

Yes, it would make things so much simpler ** -- Oregon Hoo 07/19/2018 11:48AM

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